A Mother and Her 21 Year Old Transgender Son Tell Their Story of Navigating Mental Health as a Trans Individual

In this powerful podcast episode, a mother and her 21-year-old transgender son share their journey from two deeply personal perspectives. The son opens up about his experience realizing he was transgender, the internal struggles he faced, and the mental health battles that followed—including depression, an eating disorder, substance use, and suicidal thoughts. His mother offers an emotional account of her own journey, from confusion and fear to understanding and unconditional support. Together, they explore the challenges of navigating mental health as a trans individual, the impact of societal pressures, and the transformative power of acceptance. Their honest and heartfelt conversation sheds light on the importance of support systems, open communication, and access to mental health care for transgender individuals.

Become a The Aware Mind subscriber. $6 a month will give you access to exclusive content, including guided meditations for better sleep, enhanced focus and much needed emotional healing. Link to Subscribe Today

The Aware Mind's host, Sarah Vallely has been teaching meditation for over 20 years and is a private coach, helping clients heal from a narcissistic parent, abusive partner, trauma from growing up with ADHD, intrusive thoughts and overwhelming anxiety. 

Important links:
Sarah's Mindfulness Coaching website: https://www.sarahvallely.com
TSD Mindfulness Coach Certification https://www.tsdmind.org

This episode is a meditation for beginner mindfulness meditators and anyone interested in learning supports for a variety of mental health challenges, including overthinking, trauma, intrusive thoughts and self-worth.  The Aware Mind produces content that supports stress reduction, anxiety relief, better concentration and focus, and trauma healing.

The Aware Mind's host, Sarah Vallely has been teaching meditation for over 20 years and is a private coach, helping clients heal from a narcissistic parent, abusive partner, trauma from growing up with ADHD, intrusive thoughts and overwhelming anxiety. 

Transcript

 00:00:04 

At this point, every information portal is saturated with mindfulness content. But this show is a unique, unusual, curious take on mindfulness. Some of what you hear will be completely new to you. Let's dive in and take a look at the nature of the aware mind. I invite you to deepen your awareness so that you may be liberated and inspired. I'm Sarah Vallely, professional coach.

 00:00:32 

I help people overcome anxiety, heal from past trauma, improve their relationships, and maintain better work-life balance. In this episode, you will hear from a mother and her trans son. And they're going to tell their story of pain and of confusion as well as moving into a place of peace and happiness. And that mom is me, actually. And I'm here with my son, Ren. Ren is 21 years old.

 00:01:01 

He works as a welder at a national company. And he's in school working towards a law degree. And I'm so excited you're here on my show, Ren. Yeah, I'm happy to be here. So, Ren, would you mind starting us off here by giving your definition of what transgender means, just so we're all on the same page? So, the word like transgender can be used as like an umbrella term to basically mean anyone who identifies as a gender other than what they were assigned at birth.

 00:01:31 

So, that can be like non-binary people identifying as like neither or both. For me, I just, I was assigned female slash like girl woman at birth. And I identify as a man. Thank you. Yeah. And well, once we get into our story, I think the listeners are really going to learn more about what all that means on a more detailed level. I want to share a few statistics about transgender people in the U.S.

 00:01:58 

So, 2.3 million adults in the U.S. identify as transgender. So, that's about 1% of the population. This comes from census information. What I really want to impress upon today is the connection between transgender experience and mental health. So, I want to give some statistics on that as well. In one survey, it found that 40% of transgender adults, they reported having attempted suicide.

 00:02:27 

So, that's a lot, right? 40% of transgender adults having attempted suicide. What a lot of people might not know is that people who are transgender, they experience a lot of depression. That's very prevalent. 31% of people who identify as transgender have depressive disorder. And then 12% have been diagnosed with general anxiety disorder.

 00:02:54 

The Williams Institute also offers some statistics on suicide. 40% of transgender adults experience suicidal ideation. 7% reported a recent suicide attempt. And 21% report self-injury. And also, the violence that is directed towards transgender people.

 00:03:18 

Transgender people are over four times more likely than cisgendered individuals to experience a violent crime, including rape, including sexual assault, including aggravated or simple assault. And so, one of the reasons gender-affirming care is so important is that gender-affirming care is responsible for lowering depression, suicide attempts, and suicidal ideation.

 00:03:45 

And it's also shown that depending on how supportive the families are, that that also has a big impact on the mental health of those who are transgender. Any thoughts on any of those statistics? A lot of people will try to argue that the reason for the high rates of, like, suicidal ideation, suicide attempts, self-harm, and all of that is because they want to view transness as, like, a disease or disorder.

 00:04:13 

It's posed in a way where the being transgender is the reason for all of that, when it's actually being trans in a cis world that creates all those problems. If we had a society that was chill about it and didn't, you know, didn't have headlines calling you an abomination all the time, or people refusing to see you for who you are, then that would not be an issue. I think that, like, people will often try to statue it in the way that being trans is the issue

 00:04:42 

and not, like, the way the world treats trans people. Right, yeah. So you're making this distinction between are the mental health issues just simply because you are struggling with being trans versus you are a trans person in a society that struggles with trans people. Yeah. Yeah, that's a good distinction. And I'll be honest, I mean, I've had my own growth with this.

 00:05:06 

I mean, years ago, I remember thinking that people were trans because they had a disorder. So maybe they were bipolar or maybe they were borderline personality disorder. And so because of that disorder, they thought they were trans. I'll be honest, that is something that I believed at one point several years ago. So that is a good distinction. I'm so glad that you made that.

 00:05:30 

So anything you want to elaborate on about why someone who's transgender struggles with depression or struggles with thinking about suicide? If I don't want to experience stuff like this, my options are go back in the closet or continue to experience these or kill myself. Those are kind of the options that is presented by the society because, like, you as one person can't stop the culture. I do IFS work with my clients, Internal Family Systems.

 00:05:58 

One of the ways that I look at this, thinking about suicide, suicide attempts, there's a part of the person that is trying to shield you, protect you from this deep, deep pain. And this deep, deep pain might be, you know, feeling truly rejected by society or certain people. So what I would love to do is go chronologically, you know, start in a certain year, you at a certain age and talk about what you were going through.

 00:06:26 

And then me as the mom, talk about what I was going through and how aware or unaware I was of what was going on. Ren, what would be a good year to start telling your story that is relevant to you being transgender? Fourth and fifth grade is kind of when I perceived gender for the first time. I do remember perceiving how the other girls in my class would sneeze. And then my sneeze was not like that.

 00:06:54 

I was like, I have a violent old man sneeze, which was probably not super true because I was, like, an 11-year-old child. But I was just like, oh, this sneeze is simply not girl enough. So I changed it because I wanted to sneeze like a little kitten, like all of the other girls in my class. And what's hilarious is I've talked to, like, a lot of other trans people. And this is apparently a very common experience. And then, like, you reach adulthood and you're just, like, stuck with that altered sneeze forever.

 00:07:23 

Yeah, so that's, like, one of your first memories of trying to, is mask the right word, trying to mask and be this certain gender that you feel like you're supposed to be. Yeah, definitely. I think that's, like, the first, at least, like, conscious attempt at that. And for me, when you were in third or fourth grade, I saw you as all girl. I mean, you wore the dresses. Before that, you were really into Disney princesses. I had no idea.

 00:07:52 

It wasn't like we were noticing you moving towards things that more boys would move towards. And we parented, we followed you as the children and, like, what did you want? We went and we supported that. So it wasn't like we were giving you trucks for your birthday. So we weren't doing any of that. We were giving you tutus and signing you up for dance class and things like that. That's what I was begging you guys to do. Yeah, exactly. Right. Okay, what about fifth, sixth grade, moving into middle school? What were you experiencing then?

 00:08:23 

So most of my friends were boys and we would all, um, we'd all play on this mine. We'd, like, hop on Skype and all play on this one Minecraft server together. And after, like, a little while, I started noticing that I was being treated differently on this server with my friends and with, like, the other people on the server that we became friends with. I was treated differently and I, for a minute there, I couldn't figure it out. I didn't know, like, why I was somehow, like, being put in a different category than the rest of my friends and treated differently as a result of that.

 00:08:52 

And then eventually it clicked. It was like, oh, I'm a girl and that means things for how I'm going to be treated by my peers. But I was also 12, so I didn't fully conceptualize, like, what that meant. I was just like, oh, I'm a girl, so I'm going to be treated differently. And then I also remember, like, with the struggling to connect with peers that were girls, I, like, tried to get into the stuff that they were into and that continued through the rest of middle school. But I went way too hard with it.

 00:09:22 

Girls like makeup. I'll get into makeup. But we were all 13, so they're like, I have the Maybelline, like, great lash and, like, a little blush and eyeshadow. And I was like, I have the Anastasia Beverly Hills Cream Contour Palette and I know what a cut crease is. And I just, like, spent all my time, like, watching Beauty Guru videos. And I ended up taking it too far in a way so that I still wasn't connecting, like, with my peers in that way.

 00:09:50 

I remember that, especially in eighth grade. You were, like, all about the makeup. And I remember when you were gaming, you were gaming with Mason. And I guess there were some other people online. For me, I thought, oh, gosh, I have this, like, cute, pretty, badass little girl who's gaming. And she has this cute boyfriend named Mason. And I remember walking into your room one day when you were all gaming.

 00:10:17 

And Mason was like, oh, I really like your shoes, Faith. So we should also say that Faith is your dead name. So Faith was the name that I gave you at birth. And you've changed it to Wren. But yeah, and so I think it might be good for us to paint more of a picture, too, of, like, what you were into. So you were very athletic. You were doing a lot of gymnastics. You took a lot of gymnastics training. And you were in some competitions. And you were quite good.

 00:10:47 

At some point, you were on a dance team. I can't remember if that's sixth grade. I will say that I remember you did have a lot of friends who were girls, too, right? Yeah. You were very popular. I remember that. You had a lot of friends. People really looked up to you. You were very much into fashion. I mean, you had so much better fashion tastes than I did. I remember that.

 00:11:11 

And I remember the mayor of Asheville came to your school to give a talk. And people were, at the end, the students were allowed to raise their hand and ask questions. And you raised your hand. And I actually wasn't there. I had a teacher tell this whole thing to me because I thought it was so funny that you raised your hand. And you didn't have a question. But you complimented the mayor on her shoes. You're like, I really like your shoes. Do you remember that? Oh, vaguely.

 00:11:39 

So my perspective of you in middle school is just how absolutely confident you were and how popular you were. And you were brilliant. Your grades were outstanding. And you were this amazing athlete. So I was moving into this place with you that just like I have this amazing daughter, right? This amazing female. Now, that's interesting because that I'm sure that was actually what was happening.

 00:12:08 

But that was like not my perspective at all while I was moving through it. What was your perspective? I never actually felt like I had like all of those friends. But I think it's just like I still felt like an outsider in those situations. Even like in eighth grade, like I was getting invited to all the popular kids, end of the year parties, birthday parties and all that. But I still just like felt like I shouldn't have been there. I didn't really know anyone.

 00:12:33 

Yeah, eighth grade was a weird year for you because you had been at that one school from third to seventh grade, which was more liberal hippie type school. And then you on your own, you know, because of your own decision, you wanted to transfer to this other school that was more conservative. And so that was a very interesting year for you. You had to take the whole year really to find your people. You were not with your people in the beginning.

 00:13:01 

I remember you went to a sleepover and they were putting down gay people. And you were just like so distraught. Like you came home and you were just like, oh my God, mom, you're not going to believe what they were saying about gay people. No, I remember that. That was so funny because it was like the whole sleepover went well. And then it's the next day. I don't even know how we got on the conversation. But like the girl whose house I was at, she was just like, you know, just like those gay people.

 00:13:25 

They take these symbols that God like gave for us, like the rainbow and Noah's Ark. And they just like take it and corrupt it. And I was just like, I'm going to go outside real quick. Dad, I need you to come pick me up right now. I know. I know I said not till later. No, you need to get in your car right now. Get me out of here. Yeah, that was that had a big effect on you. But I felt bad for you. But at the same time, I was glad that you were kind of getting introduced to other perspectives

 00:13:53 

and really learning about about the world that, you know, as the world really shows up. And so you couldn't navigate it. Like it was like me and one other atheist kid. I just don't believe it, which is hilarious now as like a more religious person. But all right. We talked about middle school and let's talk about the beginning of high school.

 00:14:18 

What was going on for you, especially regarding mental health and any struggles in that regard? I know like in eighth grade is when a lot of my mental health struggles started. Like that's when I started having like suicidal thoughts and started self-harming. But it wasn't super bad. It was mostly just like as a coping mechanism when I would feel so bad I was unable to sleep. Actually, when I started high school, I was in a pretty good place. I was really excited to be going to the like magnet STEM school and I made like the varsity cheer team.

 00:14:48 

I was really excited about that. So I was honestly doing like really well at the start of high school. And then about halfway through freshman year, I started having more struggles with anxiety and depression and then got diagnosed severe anxiety and depression at like 14. I didn't have any conception of it having anything to do with gender or whatever. You started suffering from anxiety pretty young. I want to say as young as nine years old.

 00:15:14 

I remember when you were that age, 9, 10, 11, and you would be in your room, on your bed, pulling your hair out or just really stressed and not able to really explain what was going on. And I would go in there and, you know, try to talk to you, but you didn't want to talk to someone about it. You just wanted to be alone. So I would leave. That would happen every few weeks for several years. And then... I also remember like throwing plastic hangers at the wall until they'd break.

 00:15:44 

Okay. So as a way to kind of just get it, get it out. Yeah. Like release it. Yeah. Yeah. I used to do things like that too. I used to throw my hairbrush and I used to actually bite myself when I was as young as five years old, you know, doing things like that with that extreme anxiety. Correct me here on the timing, but I think it was in eighth grade. You really hit a wall with your anxiety and your dad and I had been divorced by then and you were with him that week.

 00:16:13 

I remember leaving my house and going up and picking you up at dad's and you and I went out and had dinner together, even though it wasn't my week because you were having some extreme anxiety and then we ended up taking you to the doctor and getting you on a medication for that. So do you remember that? Was that eighth grade? I think so. I don't really... I remember at some point getting on that first anxiety med.

 00:16:37 

As far as doctors treating mental health stuff, I mostly remember like in freshman or sophomore year of high school being in and out of the doctor's office like once a month trying like different antidepressants and anxiety meds. Before that, we found out that I had like a heart arrhythmia. So we were like doing this dance of like how can we treat the heart arrhythmia and treat the depression at the same time when everything we could give you for the depression will make the heart problem worse and everything we can give you for the heart problem will make the depression worse.

 00:17:06 

And then eventually I was just like, I don't care about the heart problem. We need to do something about the mental health. And then I remember like trying Lexapro and Prozac and a couple other different things. We got with a really good psychiatrist and he was trying you out on different medications. So that was probably sophomore year, I'm guessing. Yeah, I know like sophomore year was probably like the worst that my mental health was at any point.

 00:17:35 

So let's talk about that. So was that the year that you were really seriously thinking about suicide? And there was that one night that you didn't come home, you were at your boyfriend's and you know what I'm talking about, right? Yeah, that might have been like the start of junior year because I could drive at that point. So it was like, I guess it was like sophomore year into junior year. But like during that time, I was thinking about suicide like every day, cutting myself like pretty much every day.

 00:18:03 

It didn't consciously have anything to do with being trans. I don't think but it was all related to I was really stressed about like school and getting into college and just like generally just like being enough. So that was the issue. And like in hindsight, I do think that it was related because there's like if you don't feel like yourself and you aren't being yourself acting like yourself, you're going to be

 00:18:27 

trying to achieve these impossible images of like what you should be because you're like searching for this and you're trying to reach this impossible goal. You're going to like feel like shit and like a failure all the time. And that also coincided with having like an eating disorder. And I think that was also like related to being a girl and like being in cheer and all of that was just like there's this specific image of like what a girl is. I just like couldn't reach it because also like when I look at myself in the mirror, I thought

 00:18:56 

that I looked like a boy. I didn't have the knowledge or language to like talk about that in any way. So I was just like I look like a boy. I'm supposed to be a girl. That means that I'm ugly because girls aren't supposed to look like boys. What I was going through is you were working with the psychiatrist. We were trying out different meds and I was super concerned. I mean, it's so hard for a mom to see their child, you know, be wrestling with all of this

 00:19:25 

anxiety and depression. But there was a part of me that understood it because I was doing the same thing. I mean, I suffered from a terrible amount of anxiety as a child, as a teen, as a young adult. Part of me was thinking, well, he's going through what I went through. There's a lot of mental health challenges in our family. This is probably genetic. You know, he's going through this.

 00:19:50 

The good news is that he's, well, she, your faith back then that you were taking meds, which, you know, I didn't. Nobody really did that back then when I was your age. Nobody took their teen to the psychiatrist to get meds for depression. You didn't even really talk about the fact that you were suffering so much. Yeah. I don't know if even a lot of those meds really existed because a lot of them have come out in the past. I want to say in like the past, like 20 years, SSRIs and like that sort of pharmaceuticals

 00:20:19 

are kind of like newer. And I do remember that night when you didn't come home and I was freaking out because I didn't know where you were. Then you finally came home the next morning and you explained to me that you went to your boyfriend's house because you were going to kill yourself. And so, you know, that was how you were dealing with it and saving yourself was going to your boyfriend's house so he could help you.

 00:20:47 

My response was all business. I just went into take charge. Let's fix this mode. Let's find you the right help. That maybe was when you, we got you the psychiatrist and you started taking the meds. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it was like, you know, how do we fix this? How do we get you the right help? Maybe that's when we got you a therapist. That's how I responded. And you were really upset with me because I didn't come to you with compassion and love

 00:21:16 

and immediately put my arms around you and just tell you how much I love you. And I regret that still to this day that that wasn't my response. I went into survival mode. I remember that so vividly. What is your memories of that? Most of what I remember from the aftermath is you and dad suggesting that I quit cheer. And I was just like, absolutely not. And we're trying to like take things off my plate, which quitting my job was a really good thing to do.

 00:21:42 

I'm glad that like I was like, no, like I need to stay in cheer because having things to go and do to like fill time to stop from just like staring at the ceiling because you're depressed was really good and important. In hindsight, like I think it was a good response to be like, okay, well, like what do we need to do about this? What do we need to fix this? Because like that's what I needed professional intervention at that point. So I think that was a good way to go.

 00:22:07 

But I think my response at the time was because like what had happened to like trigger that is I went to my boyfriend's house after work because that was just what the plan was to hang out. And I was like very deep in the eating disorder at that time. He was like, you need to eat this bowl of pasta. I ate the bowl of pasta and flipped out.

 00:22:28 

It just like it felt like failure and like I wasn't doing what I was supposed to do and like I wasn't being that like perfect image of American successful girl boss or whatever. I also didn't really see it as like a problem.

 00:22:43 

I was very much in that time of like mental illness where you think it makes you interesting and you think it makes you special and that if you don't have that, then you'll stop being interesting and you'll lose like what makes you you, which is just the mental not to like personify mental illness. But like that's the mental illnesses like survival mechanism that like, oh, you can't you can't get rid of me. You can't kill me because you need me to be interesting. I'm a part of you.

 00:23:14 

I didn't really want that professional help and professional intervention. I just wanted someone to be like, it's OK, like you're enough, even though you ate that bowl of pasta. So from my perspective, again, you were super ambitious. I mean, you still are super ambitious. You made the varsity cheerleading team as a freshman at a very prominent cheer school. You were a flyer.

 00:23:38 

You were the one that they were throwing up in the air and you had straight A's. You were gorgeous. Right. I mean, you used to just do yourself up. And even when you didn't have any makeup on, I mean, you were just drop dead gorgeous. You always were. So, again, me having this perspective of, wow, I have this, you know, really amazingly intelligent, grounded, ambitious, strong female daughter struggling with anxiety.

 00:24:07 

And we were we were working on this. I had no idea you had an eating disorder. This is something that I don't think your dad nor I knew at all. Later, we find that out. And later, we find out that you had avoidant restrictive food intake disorder. Would you mind explaining that a little bit? My like eating journey has been really interesting because I from like ages 13 to 17, never diagnosed.

 00:24:32 

But four years of eating disorder during like very developmental years had like physical effects on me. So there was a while where like I try to eat and I would retch and gag and be unable to and then like have little to no appetite, a physically smaller stomach. It turned out that it was like the muscles in my throat were not able to fire correctly in order for me to swallow. So then I was dealing with that for a while.

 00:24:56 

And that's our fit restrictive thing because I was like, I'm not going to try to eat this thing if I know that I'm just going to retch and gag and throw it back up. Because A, that sucks and B is a waste of time and money. So there would be quote unquote safe foods that I'm like, if I eat this, I'm going to actually be able to eat it. And have finally now in the last like year and a half been able to climb out of that. And I think one of the reasons I didn't know you had an eating disorder because you hardly ever ate with us.

 00:25:25 

You had cheer almost every night. When you weren't at cheer, you were at work. You worked at Dick's Sporting Goods. So I didn't really see what you were eating or not eating. And you weren't losing a ton of weight then. I mean, later, a few years later, you were starting to lose a lot of weight. I did not know about that. And still absolutely no idea about any, you know, you thinking about being transgender. So then what happened is we had COVID, right? So schools were shut down.

 00:25:54 

It was your senior year, senior year school. It was junior year. Okay. It's the end of junior year. Okay. So then what happened was COVID happened. That was your junior year of high school. Schools closed. And then that whole next year, you took school from home. And that was just terrible for a lot of different reasons. We were all having our mental health challenge. I honestly had a really great time. Yeah. Okay. During that. You were smoking a lot of weed. I know that.

 00:26:23 

I was honestly having a really great time at the start of the pandemic. All of our grades got locked where they were. So they couldn't fall below that. So that dropped stress off of my plate. I also was able to leave my terrible boyfriend. Like he was just like attached at the hip. And they were like, school's closed for two weeks. And I was like, well, 21 days is all it takes is how long it takes to create or break a habit. But so it's basically just like the way that I think of it is like there was all these shackles that I put onto myself when I was like 13 years old. And when the pandemic hit, they all just broke off at once.

 00:26:52 

Didn't have to worry about a terrible boyfriend. Didn't have to worry about school. Didn't have to worry about all these clubs. Cheer competitions were canceled too. So I didn't have to worry about cheer anymore. At that point, I wasn't working. So just like suddenly I had a clean plate and I could do what I actually wanted to do. But I didn't really know what that was. So I didn't really know who I was either. But with that being said, that was the time when I started to get really concerned about you. That's when you started smoking a lot of weed. So that was concerning.

 00:27:20 

And then what really got me was when we took that cross-country trip and we drove out to Colorado and you'd run out of pot. And you had what I want to say is, you know, a psychotic episode. Like it was that was one of the most terrifying moments of my entire life. I mean, you really you went into the psychosis when you ran out of weed. And so that just it all came down on me like there are some really major issues going on here.

 00:27:47 

And I started to get really, really concerned. So, OK, so that was COVID. That was COVID. And then it turned into your graduation year and you were graduating and you went to college. I think that first semester at college, I think there's a lot there that was significant for you being trans. So what? Yeah, let's rewinding. Rewinding a little bit to senior year of high school, I found out that non-binary people exist.

 00:28:16 

There's a joke in like the queer community that there's like a pipeline where it's like you start and you're just like, oh, well, like I'm just I'm a she they. And then you're they them and then you're they he and then you're he they and then you're he him as you're just like, you know, moving through it and finding out what it is to be authentically yourself. So I found out that being non-binary was an option. I was just like, oh, yeah, well, I'm obviously I'm not a girl. Cool. That's when you changed your name. You were still in principle when you changed your name. Yeah.

 00:28:45 

So I was like, obviously, I'm not a girl. Cool. I didn't know that was an option. I didn't know not a girl is an option I could pick. So I wasn't like, I'm a man yet. I was just like, oh, not girl is not it. I know it's not girl. We're pretty sure about that. So I was like identifying as non-binary and I was just like, I had hated the name Faith for like my entire life. I literally would physically cringe when people would say it to the point where like I literally outlawed my boyfriend from saying it. I was like, you are not allowed to say my name to me.

 00:29:16 

Makes me uncomfortable. And then in this like society as we know it might be over and collapsing. I was just like, oh, like you don't have to have this name. You don't like you can just change it. That's when I changed my name. I might have been like halfway through senior year. And at that point, whenever I was like, I'm not a girl. I need to change my name. I stopped self-harming then. Right. Yeah. And the self-harming is something that I don't think we knew about until after.

 00:29:45 

And when you changed your name, I don't know if your dad and I were just completely in denial, but we still had no idea that you were even non-binary. We just, you know, so many people were changing their names. I mean, they still are. So I don't know. We didn't really think much of it. We're just like, oh, well, Faith is changing her name. That's, you know, of course, Faith is doing that. That's something Faith would do. Right. You know, I got that track. Change your name. So and it was hard.

 00:30:11 

I mean, it took several months for me to transition with the name. It wasn't overnight. It was it was several months. And I remember it's like I was to be expected. Yeah. And I remember the time it finally clicked was when I changed it in my phone, when I actually went in and edited your contact. And I put Ren in because I didn't do that for a long time. But when I finally went in there and changed your contact, that's like when it clicked. And then when you call or text, you know, I'd see that name. And so that was that was really helpful.

 00:30:40 

So still my perspective, having no idea that there was any kind of you being transgender, it just wasn't on our radar at all. And then you went to college your first semester at college. And so what was that like? It was cool. I had like a couple like non-binary. There was like one out trans kid in my class at high school, but I didn't really know what that was.

 00:31:04 

So I just it was something that I just kind of didn't interact with because I was like, it's honestly none of my business. Because like it wasn't someone that I was like close friends with. I don't even know if we had a class together. I was just like, I'm pretty sure you're trans. I don't actually even know which way, but I get to college and half of my friends are trans. So like hanging out with other trans people, talking to them. At that point, it was still like in a non-binary way. I was just like, I just don't like want to have boobs because I just don't want to.

 00:31:32 

I was like, I think it'd be really cool if my voice was deeper. And you were not in the makeup wearing cheerleader mode anymore. You had shifted into emo for those of us who are older, more like a punk look at that point. Different hair covers, big t-shirts, things like that. Yeah, like I had, well, I was kind of like straddling the line. So I'd like a really short like mullet that I would dye different colors. And I do like makeup, but I do it kind of weird and asymmetrically.

 00:31:59 

And just like draw suns on my forehead with eyeliner and that sort of thing. So I was like kind of doing the like gender non-conforming thing. I also had like a wig because I'd shaved my head in high school and I wanted to have long hair for prom. Then I noticed if I wore my wig, I was treated differently than when I was dressed all weird or whatever. Your long blonde wig. Yeah, yeah. You were still dressing and for certain Instagram pictures wearing, you know, really nice dresses and long wigs. Yeah. So I was like in this point where I was like, am I trans?

 00:32:30 

Probably. You completed that first semester of college and then you moved back home with your dad and you dropped out of college. That was a really hard time in your life from my perspective. I mean, that's when you started getting into some really hardcore drugs. That's when I was really worried you were going to die from fentanyl. Like that was a really, really hard time. Your mental health was like progressively getting worse and worse and worse. I mean, it was starting to get really bad from my perspective.

 00:32:59 

At the time of dropping out, I had like come to this realization where I was like, I can't think about my gender anymore because I know where it's going to end up. I know what the answer is, but I can't admit it to myself because when I admit that to myself, then there's things that need to happen. I have to come out. I have to tell people that I'm going to have to deal with testosterone and top surgery and all that sort of stuff.

 00:33:23 

And I'm just like not ready for that, especially because like the person that I was dating at the time, I had like mentioned these things to. He was just like not into it. He did not want me to be a man, did not want that to happen. So just like very subtly was just like, nah, you can't, you can't do that. So I was like in this place where I was like, I know what the answer is, but I am just not ready to do that. I'm not in a place where I can do that. But was still presenting more gender nonconforming because that's just like how I felt comfortable, more comfortable presenting.

 00:33:52 

And then we broke up right after I dropped out. I was just like, oh, well, like I think subconsciously, maybe if I wasn't trans, maybe if like I was more girl, then maybe this would have worked out. And I kind of like backpedaled really hard and was presenting a lot more like feminine, really just like because of how I wanted to be treated in the world. And I didn't want to have to deal with like the problems of being trans.

 00:34:16 

And I ended up in this like self-betrayal because I like knew what it was I needed to do and wanted to do, but I wasn't ready to not be treated like a hot girl. You were a hot girl. I was a very hot girl. You were. You had it going on. I was slaying. Yeah. So you were kind of really pushing into that femininity to just kind of push away what was kind of eating at you in a way.

 00:34:42 

And maybe you weren't completely depressed or because you were doing all these drugs. But from the outside, you could tell that you were spiraling down. That's really what it looked like for me. You were in welding school. It was the early summer of 2023. 2023, you had just turned 19 years old. And you were about to turn 20. Yeah. Okay. We found out that you were trans and we found out you were trans in the typical way.

 00:35:11 

I've done some research. This is actually a typical way that that parents find out that their child is trans. We found out from somebody else. So we found out from your stepsister. So your stepsister had told your dad. So you were out to some degree with your friends, but we as parents, we didn't. Yeah. You guys are the last ones to find out. Okay. Your dad came racing over here in his car and was crying and came in and sat down and told

 00:35:41 

me that your stepsister had told him that you are trans. And it was a complete shock. I mean, we had zero idea. We had no idea. So your dad and I, we'd been divorced for like, you know, 12 years or however long it had been. And we're just sitting there in my living room being like, oh my God. Like it was just like, it was, it was really shocking. We felt blindsided. Not that it was any of your fault that we felt blindsided, but we really had no idea.

 00:36:11 

And so for me, I was really distraught. I mean, for two weeks straight, I cried every single day for two weeks straight. So I'm just explaining this part of the story, you know, for any parents that are going through this, it was an extreme amount of grief. So there were two things that were going on. One is I was going through this idea of losing my daughter. I mean, I absolutely loved my daughter, Faith. You know, we had gone to Italy together. We had traveled together. We had done all these things together.

 00:36:39 

And you, my daughter, Faith was so beautiful and smart. And I just loved to be the parent of such a strong female, right? And so to just go through the grief of losing that, because it is, it is like someone is dying and there's someone new. So it was, it was really intense for me. So I just let myself really let it out, just crying a lot.

 00:37:02 

But then after the two weeks, I started to get to a little bit more stability with it. And the other part, there was the grief. And then there was the fear, the fear of how you were going to be treated. You know, you by then were working at this national corporation as a welder. I was just so in pain and fear about what, how you might be treated as, as a trans person there and anywhere else.

 00:37:28 

I was in great fear, fear for how life might unfold for you. So I'd love to hear how that was for you coming out to your parents and then your process forward. And you started taking testosterone. It was just a few months later after we found out. So that was another thing I was struggling with is I have friends who have trans children, but they had like multiple years. They had three years, five years before their kids were taking testosterone.

 00:37:57 

So I had basically three months. I can't remember exactly, but how to process through this and then to have you start taking testosterone and start looking different, having your voice change. There was a lot of grief about, you know, not hearing your voice as it was. So what was that like for you to come out to your parents and then starting on this journey of taking testosterone? Before I get into that, one thing that I think parents and their trans kids, there is about like the grief of like losing your daughter or whatever.

 00:38:25 

I think that there's this sort of like disconnect that people don't really talk about too often where your parent is grieving their son or daughter. That is a very valid emotional response. And like they have every right to grieve that. But it's just weird as the trans child because you're sitting there and you're like, you're grieving someone that never truly existed, even though like person did absolutely exist to your parent. They were to you. They were a fabrication and someone that didn't really exist.

 00:38:54 

And you said you were grieving your boyhood. You didn't get to have a boyhood. Yeah, I've come to a piece about that. Talking to like my cis friends about their boyhoods. It doesn't sound like it was a great time. Like getting beat up and called gay doesn't really sound like a super great experience. But also I have never experienced anything worse than being a 13 year old girl. I've gone to a point about where like I'm I'm glad that I got to experience girlhood because

 00:39:23 

it's like it's a very special specific experience. I'm just I'm a person who wants to experience as much of this world as I can. So to me, it's like a gift that I got to like experience those years moving through the world being perceived as a girl. And now I get to have like this other experience. And also what was a lot for me and your dad to process is that not only do we find out that we have a trans son now, we have a gay trans son. Because you had always dated men.

 00:39:52 

You were going to continue to date men. So it's like it was a lot to process. Yeah, there's a lot to process there. Yeah. The point that I really want to express get across to the listeners is that once you came out and you started taking the testosterone, your mental health got so much better. You stopped doing the hardcore drugs. Your depression and anxiety got so much better. Your eating disorder got so much better. You were so much more clear.

 00:40:21 

You were so much more clear about life, about relationships, about what you wanted to pursue for your life's goal. You're very clear right now about finishing up your bachelor's degree and then going to law school. I see this healing so much about coming out and being trans. So what can you say about that? About like, how does that feel in such a positive way to embody that until you can shed all of these mental health disorders that you were struggling with? I think there's like a few factors.

 00:40:51 

The biggest one for sure is definitely like that inexplicable thing. That was just like, why can't I connect with other people? Why can't I connect with my peers in the way that I want? There were so many things that just felt wrong that I then either had a reason for why and or it stopped feeling wrong. And like, I was actually able to connect with my peers in the way that I'd always wanted to. It's over said, but like move through the world in an authentic way where it's like, I,

 00:41:16 

especially in like the year or so before coming out and transitioning, I felt like I was playing a character at pretty much all times. And it just felt good to not play a character and to not have to deal with that. And like, is my character saying the right thing and doing the right thing? And it's like, I actually don't care because I'm not a character. I'm just me. And if you have a problem with that, then that sounds like a you problem. I know that everyone that's in my life is in my life because they actually give a shit about me and because they actually like who I am as a person.

 00:41:45 

Your personality has changed since you have transitioned. You're so much more grounded. Our relationship is so much better now that you've transitioned. I mean, discounting anything else. I mean, I'm just so glad that our relationship is better. I mean, that's just such a huge benefit of you transitioning. And it was really hard to accept that you were going to do the testosterone. But I have to say that that's actually really helped me because you do look different. I mean, your face is different. Your body's different. Your voice is different.

 00:42:15 

Yeah. All I can see is that you are male. I mean, I can't even see you as a female anymore. And that testosterone has really helped with that. Yeah. My one of my friends at work who's conservative cishat guy. Love him, though. Was like your tea that that stuff you inject every week. It's working. You look like my friend's dad. Yeah. You look like your dad now, too. Yeah. You look more like dad. All right. Well, Ren, it was so special to have you here on the show.

 00:42:45 

Thank you so much for telling your story, being vulnerable and being open about everything that you've gone through. And I'm sure the listeners really appreciate that. So thank you. Of course. I love talking about myself. Yeah. And that's something that's probably always been true. All right. Thank you. No problem. The Aware Mind Podcast is a TSD mindfulness production. Please check out our show notes for upcoming events and links to additional resources.

 00:43:11 

Please visit our website at tsdmind.org. That is T as in tame, S as in soothe, D as in dwell, mind as in mindfulness.org. And don't forget to follow us on Instagram at tsd underscore mindfulness.